Comments for Quick Jabs: Shaved Bald And Smitten Boxing Writers; Zsolt Erdei Vs. Giacobbe Fragomeni; Did You Say MATTHEW Hatton?; More at http://queensberry-rules.com , comment 1 to 16 out of 16 comments http://queensberry-rules.com Mon, 06 Sep 2010 01:00:42 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-4707 That's well known that cash makes people independent. But what to do when somebody does not have cash? The one way is to receive the home loans and just consolidation loan. - WaltonAdrian Sun, 04 Apr 2010 01:31:58 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-100 I'm not sure Rafael is as faded a force as Izzy, PT, but I'm still uncomfortable with them fighting on against top competition until I'm convinced they can without getting hurt. Neither of them have fought even OK guys since III; maybe if each of them had fought and beaten solid journeymen, I'd be more open. But honestly, I'd be happier if they both called it quits. I see your point, but I also see IV as not being worth the risk. Thanks for liking the new site. - Tim Starks Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:56:05 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-83 Tim, I can see where you're coming from not wanting to see Marquez-Vazquez IV 'cause I don't want to see either man get hurt either. It's also highly unlikely that a fourth fight can really improve upon the rivalry's current perfect narrative - the rare trilogy where the last fight is the most violent and most dramatic. BUT, if you support each man's continuing to fight, then it's not fair to discourage them fighting each other. They have to fight someone, and due to their status in the sport, they will be expected to fight fellow world-class opponents. Someone is going to punch them in the face, so why shouldn't it be each other? Would JuanMa's fists hurt less? These men are on the home stretches of their careers with legacies secure, primarily because of one another, and deserve every dollar they can get from here on in. If the reward is there to make Vazquez-Marquez IV, then the fight should be made. We all know boxing's a cruel game with a shitty retirement plan, so if Vazquez and Marquez are gonna go ahead and keep earning a living as professional boxers, then I want them making the maximum possible return on their brutal investment. - Pretty Toney Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:52:41 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-62 Traced: I suppose I can understand why they'd want to keep Pac from bouncing up and down in weight. But I'd only be even moderately interested in Pac-JMM III at a reasonable weight. 145 ain't it. - Tim Starks Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:52:48 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-61 But while I think Roach should have done SOMETHING if he thought Margarito's gloves were loaded, had he come out publicly and said "I think Margs loads his gloves" without any evidence, I would have been like, "Seriously?" I think he probably should have tried to see the wraps to find out if he was right, or warned future opponents about the possibility of loaded gloves, or something. Mosley got busted fairly, and the suspicions that he took 'roids on purpose are grounded in that. Maybe he knew, maybe he didn't, but the fact that every single person who gets busted taking 'roids says "I didn't know I was taking them" is enough to make valid the questions about whether it's just an excuse. That said, there's no evidence that he's taking 'roids now, so it irritates me when people say that. If someone wants to take the comments of Mayweather and Malignaggi as an excuse to dig deeper into the potential problem of steroid use in boxing, I encourage them to do so. But I don't think either of them should have said what they said, and I don't think Matthews should have written the article like that. - Tim Starks Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:50:16 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-59 I wasn't trying to imply that I thought there was any substance to the Pac rumors, other than using them as a jumping off point on the bigger "is there steroid use in boxing" question (and if so, how big a problem is it and how do we stop it from getting swept under the carpet)? I know the Twitter universe is an unscientific sampling, but there seems to be more "outrage" and other indignation at Paulie's veiled suggestions than those instances where there IS at least some evidence. I think my bigger point is that, when a guy like SSM is somehow ensnared in the steroid web--even if unintentionally as he insists, I suspect that there is a problem in the sport-- though how big a problem is subject to debate. And it would seem to me that the best method of policing the problem would be to take the suspicions of those athletes actually in the game with the best frame of reference somewhat more seriously than automatically dismissing them out of hand-- even if the "proof" does not meet the evidentiary threshold you laid out Tim. One man's Glen Beck could be another man's courageous whistleblower (Mark Felt aka DT?) I suppose (and I can't believe I just wrote that--- I need to take a shower since I feel dirty even mentioning a scumbag like Beck). Even the much pilloried Canseco turned out to be telling the truth--at least partially. So shouldn't they be encouraged to speak out IF they have a reasonable basis to do so? (emphasis on the if... they have a reasonable basis). Here may be a better example of my point: remember during the Margs cement hands furor a trainer-- I think it was Freddie R. but could be wrong--- came out and said-- yeah, we always suspected Margs was loading since he broke one of my guys eye sockets during sparring? My point is that the trainer may not have had PROOF in the probable cause sense to show that Margs was loading after that incident, but shouldn't he have been encouraged to say something publicly or do SOMETHING privately (like confront Team Margs) to preserve the integrity of the game if he had such reasonable suspicion? The "code of silence" didn't do anyone any good when it was broken in hindsight. Make no mistake, the recent comments directed at Pac strike me as nothing more gossipy speculation and I am NOT defending them or their Glen Beck-like nature in this instance. Assess their basis, and finding them lacking in any evidentiary basis [i]pay them no heed and move on[/i]. But in so doing, I'm not going foreclose the possibility that some other insider may come forward in the future with credible information on a boxer or trainer or gym (again-- I [u]am not talking about Pac[/u] here), and I'm am not simply going to automatically dismiss him becuase he can't produce the actual BALCO receipts or didn't preserve in a Coke can the actual needles he injected. - willfrank Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:14:33 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-57 PS we dont know if Pac is on steriods but we DO KNOW that the mayweathers are on crack - traced4040 Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:45:36 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-56 i really wanted pac vs marquez before the pbf vs marquez fight but now im not so sure. i dont like the idea of 145 but i dont like the idea of pac going down to 140 as i think it may mess with his body/physique which he has worked hard on for the cotto fight. it happened with roy jones when he kept switching divisions and i wouldnt want that to happen as i really want to see a pbf fight despite the fact that i hate to watch pbf or give him any more money or recognition..... its just that..... the whole marquez situation does feel very unresolved ... its kinda like a drawn game where there are no real winners. i mean pac got the win but ppl keep saying how he shoulda lost. - traced4040 Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:44:40 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-51 Where some lapse in concentration leads to an error like that. Thanks for pointing it out, though. Maybe Floyd Sr. can find some woman to beat up like the rest of the Mayweather clan and get HIMSELF thrown in jail. - Tim Starks Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:07:28 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-50 Great coverage, as usual, Tim. First, I have a small correction: Marcos Maidana fights at junior welterweight, not junior middleweight. Re: Pac on roids. I think his camp should seriously reconsider their decision not to sue Floyd Sr. I may not like Floyd Jr. as a person, but you have to respect the guy's otherworldly skills. But his father has no redeeming value, at all. ;D They should stick his ass in the can and throw away the keys... - FightFreak Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:17:23 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-46 Pacquiao passes his tests. I know that's not enough alone to conclude he isn't doing steroids but his camp ALSO denies using steroids (and PEDs generally), and there's no evidence at all that he IS doing steroids -- so he has addressed it. At this point, it is merely people asking questions aloud. It gets kind of Glenn Beckian. "I'm not saying he is on steroids for sure. But I'm just asking the question." And that's totally bad journalism. McGwire wasn't busted until he screwed himself. Most everyone else who got in trouble got in trouble because of journalists or prosecutors finding connections between athletes and shady organizations. If somebody did that to Pacquiao, then I think it's an open discussion all of a sudden. - Tim Starks Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:54:50 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-44 Let me preface this comment with the statement that I am NOT referring to the Pac man or any of the recent spate of spurious speculations slung in his direction. So we can leave the emotions aside. But the whole issue of steroids in sports (and boxing in particular), and how the press SHOULD cover it, is a real hornets nest and one that should be getting more attention. You began your paragraph, Tim with an acknowledgement that the baseball scribes largely failed to cover the "roid story" over the past decade+. And I agree with that assessment (its not exactly the mainstream press' uncritical coverage of the WMD/Iraq War run up or Wall Street debacle, but still a failure). But then you conclude it, I fear, by setting an evidentiary bar too high to examine such issues, and which I fear would result as a practical matter in the same "sweeping the issue under the rug" because there's never going to be any sufficient "proof" to raise it in the first instance. Let me change one word in that sentence: "McGwire has passed every drug test he’s ever taken. Until he fails one or some whistleblower comes forward explaining how he DID do steroids and just evaded the tests, everyone needs to STFU… " I think its still factually accurate, but it loses some of its righteous punch doesn't it? One of the quibbles I think I have with that statement is the presumption that if one tests "clean", then the only conclusion is that one hasn't used any steroids. But I don't think this is correct for a number of reasons. First, of course, is the fact that there are numerous "steroids" and HGH-like substances that there simply aren't any tests for. And I am not naive enough to think that athletes in whom multimillion dollars are invested don't have access to the absolute latest in athletic technology and the proverbial better living (and on field performance) through chemistry. And then there's the masking and other methods to try to evade whatever ad hoc testing mechanisms are in place. Indeed, though there certainly is no shortage of willing cheats, I think you almost have to be a stupid to be caught doing "roids" in this day and age (And I am looking at you Manny Ramierez when I make that particular statement-- idiot). And, sadly, the number of cases where the "smoking gun evidence" comes to light (think Balco, sorry SSM) are too few are far between-- more a result of dumb luck than anything else. Sadly, we are deluding ourselves if we think that the problem in the sporting world is simply limited to those who are "proven" cheats. So I think the bar needs to something less than "probable cause"-- borrow from a criminal law context: a "reasonable suspicion"/articulated basis perhaps? The other overarching question I have-- specific to the boxing world--- is WHAT exactly ARE the rules as to what is and is not a steroid/illegal performance enhancing supplement. The line between "supplement" and "steroid" is not exactly the brightest. Recall McGwire defended himself when creatine was found in his locker by saying he bought it at a healthfood store and the government hadn't banned it. And JC Romero this year was suspended for a supplement he bought at his local GNC. And that leads to perhaps even a bigger question: WHO is actually setting the steroid rules for the sport? Why do I suspect that the rules are all over the place just like every thing else in the sport's governance? And if that's the case, why do I also suspect that there are enforcement holes bigger than a 747 that are there to be exploited. As the biggest name in a sport on the rise (nice to be able to say that), Pac may be taking some unfair heat on an issue in which he really has no involvement. But, make no mistake, its an issue which eventually will need to be addressed somewhere down the line, and sooner rather than later. - willfrank Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:26:18 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-42 Versus has made some poor purchases, from its Top Rank deal (more Tye Fields, please!) to its Tournament of Contenders deal (biggest joke of a promotion since the XFL). I guess there'll be the occasional card a la Bernard Hopkins-Enrique Ornelas, but otherwise that's yet another television outlet for boxing gone (Telefutura, Wednesday Night Fights, Versus, and Fox Sports Net doesn't really do anything anymore). If I'd known you'd be linking to the eminent one, I'd have found you a link to where Rafael promised his shaving. Oh well. - dpg Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:15:39 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-39 dpg: I've read before that Versus might still dip its foot in the boxing pool from time to time. Dunno if it's true. I've got the Rafael item linked to the eminent Mr. Greisman's piece now. FB: The people need to know about the badger who's funky. Khan, as you said, might be too dangerous a "tune-up." Not that I've give Khan MUCH of a chance of beating Floyd. - Tim Starks Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:55:46 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-38 Fame at last! (if the comments sction works) If PBF wants to come to Britain, why not a tune up against Amir Khan? Other than the fact Khan would have a decent chance of beating him... - Funky Badger Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:35:08 +0100 http://queensberry-rules.com/2009-articles/november/quick-jabs-shaved-bald-and-smitten-boxing-writers-zsolt-erdei-vs-giacobbe-fragomeni-did-you-say-matthew-hatton-more.html#comment-27 The Dec. 3 card on Versus that seems so strange: Star Boxing purchased Tournament of Contenders' final remaining TV date. This will be it for Versus and boxing, I believe. And your quick thing on Dan Rafael shaving his head links to Lyle's article. - dpg Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:26:30 +0100